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	<title>Comments on: Share your tales of bed bug woe, ask your bed bug questions, etc.</title>
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	<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/</link>
	<description>bed bug news, information, activism, and support</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: nobugsonme</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1950</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugsonme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 03:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1950</guid>
		<description>New thread: click here to respond further or to share your story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>New thread: click here to respond further or to share your story.</p>
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		<title>By: nobugsonme</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1947</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugsonme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 02:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>TM, please read our FAQ about doing your own pest control.  It isn't likely to be enough, your problem is likely to get worse, and the amount of toxic pesticides needed to solve the problem are likely to be even worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TM, please read our FAQ about doing your own pest control.  It isn&#8217;t likely to be enough, your problem is likely to get worse, and the amount of toxic pesticides needed to solve the problem are likely to be even worse.</p>
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		<title>By: nobugsonme</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1946</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugsonme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 02:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1946</guid>
		<description>Paula--the procedure you describe is something I've seen an article about, but I don't think it's done in the US.  The only thing I will say is that the treatment of the rest of the rooms--baseboards, floors, bed frame, other furniture--has to be aggressive.  If spraying alone were used, it would usually take 4-3 or more treatments to kill all the bugs.  So even though the mattresses may be cleared with this procedure,  the room may still have a problem.  Make sure the pest control people come back and treat those places they sprayed again.  And make sure you--and any housekeeping staff-- know how to recognize all the signs, so you can swing into action at the first sign.  Your mattresses should be carefully protected as per our FAQs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paula&#8211;the procedure you describe is something I&#8217;ve seen an article about, but I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s done in the US.  The only thing I will say is that the treatment of the rest of the rooms&#8211;baseboards, floors, bed frame, other furniture&#8211;has to be aggressive.  If spraying alone were used, it would usually take 4-3 or more treatments to kill all the bugs.  So even though the mattresses may be cleared with this procedure,  the room may still have a problem.  Make sure the pest control people come back and treat those places they sprayed again.  And make sure you&#8211;and any housekeeping staff&#8211; know how to recognize all the signs, so you can swing into action at the first sign.  Your mattresses should be carefully protected as per our FAQs.</p>
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		<title>By: nobugsonme</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1945</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugsonme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 02:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1945</guid>
		<description>Tiago, campbell's research, which is here in its entirety, was done over 100 years ago and under scientifically questionable circumstances.  You can read the rest here:
http://www.reformation.org/bedbugs.html
Amongst other things, he includes a photo of the blood-sucking conenose, as a "flying bed bug", in an article about bed bugs; the cone nose is an entirely different insect, from what I understand.  I would give more weight to current entomologists anyway, since bed bugs are not what they were before (eg at least sometimes, at least somewhat pesticide resistant).

Breakfast, Nomo's advice is good.  I would especially be worried about the neighbors.  Also, do you have your futon covered (as per our FAQs)?  If not, they can be in there.

Willo, I believe I heard an entomologist on the yahoo group say that 90% isoproyl alcohol was required.  I think you should use that instead.

Also, Willo, I think its really important that a professional PCO treats your hotel room and the rest of the building.  Is this happening?  It sounds like you have a sizeable infestation that did not start with your room, but is elsewhere.  It's crucial that your building is treated professionally, or you will NEVER get rid of bed bugs under these circumstances.  Diatect, rubbing alcohol, whatever may be useful, but it is not enough.  And money should not be an issue, since the law in SF is on your side.  Look in our general FAQs (frequently asked questions).

I'd encourage Willo and ALL of you newbies (we call you newbites) to read our FAQs linked at the top.  We've been researching this a long time and while we do not know everything and we are definitely not experts on pesticides, we have heard hundreds of stories.  So I don't want to silence any of the sharing here, but I do want to say that if you don't have evidence that something works, or if you can't point us to a source online, please don't recommend it.  Ant traps, we've heard, don't work.  And trying to treat with contact killers alone will absolutely not work, the same is true of treating your apt. or room when they neighbors have bed bugs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tiago, campbell&#8217;s research, which is here in its entirety, was done over 100 years ago and under scientifically questionable circumstances.  You can read the rest here:<br />
<a href="http://www.reformation.org/bedbugs.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.reformation.org/bedbugs.html</a><br />
Amongst other things, he includes a photo of the blood-sucking conenose, as a &#8220;flying bed bug&#8221;, in an article about bed bugs; the cone nose is an entirely different insect, from what I understand.  I would give more weight to current entomologists anyway, since bed bugs are not what they were before (eg at least sometimes, at least somewhat pesticide resistant).</p>
<p>Breakfast, Nomo&#8217;s advice is good.  I would especially be worried about the neighbors.  Also, do you have your futon covered (as per our FAQs)?  If not, they can be in there.</p>
<p>Willo, I believe I heard an entomologist on the yahoo group say that 90% isoproyl alcohol was required.  I think you should use that instead.</p>
<p>Also, Willo, I think its really important that a professional PCO treats your hotel room and the rest of the building.  Is this happening?  It sounds like you have a sizeable infestation that did not start with your room, but is elsewhere.  It&#8217;s crucial that your building is treated professionally, or you will NEVER get rid of bed bugs under these circumstances.  Diatect, rubbing alcohol, whatever may be useful, but it is not enough.  And money should not be an issue, since the law in SF is on your side.  Look in our general FAQs (frequently asked questions).</p>
<p>I&#8217;d encourage Willo and ALL of you newbies (we call you newbites) to read our FAQs linked at the top.  We&#8217;ve been researching this a long time and while we do not know everything and we are definitely not experts on pesticides, we have heard hundreds of stories.  So I don&#8217;t want to silence any of the sharing here, but I do want to say that if you don&#8217;t have evidence that something works, or if you can&#8217;t point us to a source online, please don&#8217;t recommend it.  Ant traps, we&#8217;ve heard, don&#8217;t work.  And trying to treat with contact killers alone will absolutely not work, the same is true of treating your apt. or room when they neighbors have bed bugs.</p>
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		<title>By: hopelessnomo</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1944</link>
		<dc:creator>hopelessnomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 02:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1944</guid>
		<description>Just to clarify, I didn't mean to say that pesticide-resistant bugs are likely in &lt;i&gt;your&lt;/i&gt; case, I wouldn't know enough to say that, just meant to say that they exist and, according to at least one entomologist, Sean from the Bedbug Resource, very likely some resistant bugs do exist in NYC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to clarify, I didn&#8217;t mean to say that pesticide-resistant bugs are likely in <i>your</i> case, I wouldn&#8217;t know enough to say that, just meant to say that they exist and, according to at least one entomologist, Sean from the Bedbug Resource, very likely some resistant bugs do exist in NYC.</p>
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		<title>By: hopelessnomo</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1943</link>
		<dc:creator>hopelessnomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 02:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1943</guid>
		<description>Hi Breakfastlunchanddinner, sounds like a real nightmare.  Some first thoughts:

-If you do have bedbugs and they are not being exterminated by a good PCO, they could be a pesticide-resistant strain of bedbugs (there is a lot of mixed information available about this but it appears possible, even likely) and using another type of pesticide may be in order

-You need to methodically review every single place, item in your apartment and ask whether it could possibly be a bedbug harborage.  This is very difficult to do in certain states of mind and with lack of sleep.  But you must try.  Is the mattress or futon encased?  Is it the proper type of encasement?  Are there any tears?  Are there ANY upholstered pieces of furniture?  Are there any cracks or overhead fixtures or ceiling fans or holes or baseboard crevices that your exterminator has not treated?  

-Is there any other source of re-infestation?  Your workplace?  

-Do you have any other evidence?  No shells, feces?

-You might consult a dermatologist (there is of course the risk of not finding the right one) to help you eliminate any other causes for your bites.  It's possible to have delayed reaction to bites.  Or old bites flaring up.  I'm not sure what time frames we are discussing in your story.  From the sound of it, though, to this non-professional, non-trained, non-specialist reader, you may still have bedbugs that your PCO, experienced and thorough as he may be, has failed to exterminate.

-Do ALL your neighbors claim not to have bedbugs?  And do they know that they could have them and not be allergic?  Always important to rule out bedbugs coming from another apartment.  I know you said they don't.  Don't mean to burden you with so many questions, but I'm trying to think like you to see if I could have missed something.

-Your PCO could be using the wrong strategy, the wrong chemicals, the wrong approach.  Is it possible for you to consult another PCO?  Some PCOs are anxious about the overuse of some pesticides as they may undermine the intended action of the chemicals.  They could become repellent to the bugs and therefore fail.  (The bugs successfully avoid them and come out when the effect subsides.)

-Is it possible for you to consult a bedbug dog?  I don't have a referral but I'm sure others might.

If you post your and your PCOs protocol (what he's used and what you have used), others who know about stuff like that will have useful things to say I'm sure.  Is he ONLY spraying?  Or is there dusting as well?  

So sorry!  But we will try to help you figure this out...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Breakfastlunchanddinner, sounds like a real nightmare.  Some first thoughts:</p>
<p>-If you do have bedbugs and they are not being exterminated by a good PCO, they could be a pesticide-resistant strain of bedbugs (there is a lot of mixed information available about this but it appears possible, even likely) and using another type of pesticide may be in order</p>
<p>-You need to methodically review every single place, item in your apartment and ask whether it could possibly be a bedbug harborage.  This is very difficult to do in certain states of mind and with lack of sleep.  But you must try.  Is the mattress or futon encased?  Is it the proper type of encasement?  Are there any tears?  Are there ANY upholstered pieces of furniture?  Are there any cracks or overhead fixtures or ceiling fans or holes or baseboard crevices that your exterminator has not treated?  </p>
<p>-Is there any other source of re-infestation?  Your workplace?  </p>
<p>-Do you have any other evidence?  No shells, feces?</p>
<p>-You might consult a dermatologist (there is of course the risk of not finding the right one) to help you eliminate any other causes for your bites.  It&#8217;s possible to have delayed reaction to bites.  Or old bites flaring up.  I&#8217;m not sure what time frames we are discussing in your story.  From the sound of it, though, to this non-professional, non-trained, non-specialist reader, you may still have bedbugs that your PCO, experienced and thorough as he may be, has failed to exterminate.</p>
<p>-Do ALL your neighbors claim not to have bedbugs?  And do they know that they could have them and not be allergic?  Always important to rule out bedbugs coming from another apartment.  I know you said they don&#8217;t.  Don&#8217;t mean to burden you with so many questions, but I&#8217;m trying to think like you to see if I could have missed something.</p>
<p>-Your PCO could be using the wrong strategy, the wrong chemicals, the wrong approach.  Is it possible for you to consult another PCO?  Some PCOs are anxious about the overuse of some pesticides as they may undermine the intended action of the chemicals.  They could become repellent to the bugs and therefore fail.  (The bugs successfully avoid them and come out when the effect subsides.)</p>
<p>-Is it possible for you to consult a bedbug dog?  I don&#8217;t have a referral but I&#8217;m sure others might.</p>
<p>If you post your and your PCOs protocol (what he&#8217;s used and what you have used), others who know about stuff like that will have useful things to say I&#8217;m sure.  Is he ONLY spraying?  Or is there dusting as well?  </p>
<p>So sorry!  But we will try to help you figure this out&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: nobugsonme</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1942</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugsonme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 02:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1942</guid>
		<description>Fedup:

1) can anyone recommend an insect repellent that can be used on the face?

Not really--anything likely to be safe won't work (I've tried both natural and synthetic types), and anything likely to work is not safe to have on your skin, let alone your face, as an ongoing thing.  Most insect repellents direct you to wash them off.  Better to have bites on your face than to damage it permanently. But note this: people who cover themselves entirely except their faces are more likely to get bitten on the face.  Leave some exposed skin elsewhere.  
2) Is my rather hairy terrier dog likely to be carrying them around and what can I treat her with (flea shampoo?).

You can probably do this.  My hunch is that bed bugs may stay on your dog long enough to go from the floor to the sofa or bed, or from the home to a car (all of which can be a prolem), but are unlikely to hang on to a pet long enough to travel to someone's home.  Flea shampoo, from what I understand, kills fleas on the dog, but does not prevent them.
Some of us use veterinarian-prescribed flea and tick preventative drops (serious ones) and serious prescription tick collars, but I use them anyway.  I think they help, but the bottom line is the bed bugs hitchhike, but they don't infest the dog.  They also don't want to bite the dog unless you go away.

3) is there any alternative to a clothes dryer for treating clothes. I don't have one or access to one.

I think hopelessnomo is right that boiling may be an option.  But going to a launderette (laundromat to us Northamericanos) and drying might be worth it.  We're just suggesting advice we've gotten from entomologists.  You can experiment and boiling seems promising, but I haven't tried it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fedup:</p>
<p>1) can anyone recommend an insect repellent that can be used on the face?</p>
<p>Not really&#8211;anything likely to be safe won&#8217;t work (I&#8217;ve tried both natural and synthetic types), and anything likely to work is not safe to have on your skin, let alone your face, as an ongoing thing.  Most insect repellents direct you to wash them off.  Better to have bites on your face than to damage it permanently. But note this: people who cover themselves entirely except their faces are more likely to get bitten on the face.  Leave some exposed skin elsewhere.<br />
2) Is my rather hairy terrier dog likely to be carrying them around and what can I treat her with (flea shampoo?).</p>
<p>You can probably do this.  My hunch is that bed bugs may stay on your dog long enough to go from the floor to the sofa or bed, or from the home to a car (all of which can be a prolem), but are unlikely to hang on to a pet long enough to travel to someone&#8217;s home.  Flea shampoo, from what I understand, kills fleas on the dog, but does not prevent them.<br />
Some of us use veterinarian-prescribed flea and tick preventative drops (serious ones) and serious prescription tick collars, but I use them anyway.  I think they help, but the bottom line is the bed bugs hitchhike, but they don&#8217;t infest the dog.  They also don&#8217;t want to bite the dog unless you go away.</p>
<p>3) is there any alternative to a clothes dryer for treating clothes. I don&#8217;t have one or access to one.</p>
<p>I think hopelessnomo is right that boiling may be an option.  But going to a launderette (laundromat to us Northamericanos) and drying might be worth it.  We&#8217;re just suggesting advice we&#8217;ve gotten from entomologists.  You can experiment and boiling seems promising, but I haven&#8217;t tried it.</p>
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		<title>By: willow-the-wisp</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1941</link>
		<dc:creator>willow-the-wisp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 02:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1941</guid>
		<description>Hi ... wanted to say something aobut isolation ant traps. it is the co2 and possibly the heat: here is a neat little trick I've devised for the nymphs: it may or may not work ... When I come back from the laudry the double plastic bag my clothing is is is still warm.... I either put it down and wait a half an hour then bombard the bag with the contact killer I have on hand 70% isoproply alcohol--even though others have reccommended otehr stuff--that's all I have. Wether it works or not I don't know ... but making my hotel room as ujcomfortable for them as i can (and unfortuantely for me) they know that--that's why they are now trying to clime across the wall ... They will on occassion actually do this and fall onto your bed. it's not brains ... it's the body heat and the co2 so they say. 
Worst for me it this my old building has a high deep grooved moulding about eight feet up--all around the room. so far all I've done is shoot it with the alcohol every now and then .... but these fecal stains on the wall .... 
screw the carpet tape--as soon as i can I'm getting up there with the diatect and dropping some of it into the groove as evenly as I can. Then I'll try what's left of my carpet tape roll.
Anyone following my story will be happy to know I ran into a buddy a while ago i told him I had a long term sensitive medical condtion but was broke so he lent me $30.00!
YEAH!
At a buck a bug--that's 30 bugs down but how many more who knows .... I'm hoping they only poo after a blood meal  once .... the fecal matter gets smaller and smaller so I guess --although I'm not following protocol exactly: what I'm doing seems to be working.

Best wiashes--and isolate the bed and a table and spray y0ur little chair that yo usit in to type bed bug b;logs after you get out of it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi &#8230; wanted to say something aobut isolation ant traps. it is the co2 and possibly the heat: here is a neat little trick I&#8217;ve devised for the nymphs: it may or may not work &#8230; When I come back from the laudry the double plastic bag my clothing is is is still warm&#8230;. I either put it down and wait a half an hour then bombard the bag with the contact killer I have on hand 70% isoproply alcohol&#8211;even though others have reccommended otehr stuff&#8211;that&#8217;s all I have. Wether it works or not I don&#8217;t know &#8230; but making my hotel room as ujcomfortable for them as i can (and unfortuantely for me) they know that&#8211;that&#8217;s why they are now trying to clime across the wall &#8230; They will on occassion actually do this and fall onto your bed. it&#8217;s not brains &#8230; it&#8217;s the body heat and the co2 so they say.<br />
Worst for me it this my old building has a high deep grooved moulding about eight feet up&#8211;all around the room. so far all I&#8217;ve done is shoot it with the alcohol every now and then &#8230;. but these fecal stains on the wall &#8230;.<br />
screw the carpet tape&#8211;as soon as i can I&#8217;m getting up there with the diatect and dropping some of it into the groove as evenly as I can. Then I&#8217;ll try what&#8217;s left of my carpet tape roll.<br />
Anyone following my story will be happy to know I ran into a buddy a while ago i told him I had a long term sensitive medical condtion but was broke so he lent me $30.00!<br />
YEAH!<br />
At a buck a bug&#8211;that&#8217;s 30 bugs down but how many more who knows &#8230;. I&#8217;m hoping they only poo after a blood meal  once &#8230;. the fecal matter gets smaller and smaller so I guess &#8211;although I&#8217;m not following protocol exactly: what I&#8217;m doing seems to be working.</p>
<p>Best wiashes&#8211;and isolate the bed and a table and spray y0ur little chair that yo usit in to type bed bug b;logs after you get out of it!</p>
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		<title>By: hopelessnomo</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1940</link>
		<dc:creator>hopelessnomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 02:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1940</guid>
		<description>Fedupandparanoid, I am sorry about your situation.  Not having access to a dryer is not a good thing.  Just saying that makes me sad but you need to know that you face a great challenge there. 

Using boiling water at some point in the washing process (pre-treating? rinsing?) seems to me the only solution.  I'm assuming you're saying you hand-wash your clothes? Does anyone have any other suggestions?  It's the first time I see this particular problem mentioned, and it is a problem that should have a solution.  Any ideas bedbuggers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fedupandparanoid, I am sorry about your situation.  Not having access to a dryer is not a good thing.  Just saying that makes me sad but you need to know that you face a great challenge there. </p>
<p>Using boiling water at some point in the washing process (pre-treating? rinsing?) seems to me the only solution.  I&#8217;m assuming you&#8217;re saying you hand-wash your clothes? Does anyone have any other suggestions?  It&#8217;s the first time I see this particular problem mentioned, and it is a problem that should have a solution.  Any ideas bedbuggers?</p>
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		<title>By: breakfastlunchanddinner</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1939</link>
		<dc:creator>breakfastlunchanddinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 01:58:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2007/03/12/share-your-tales-of-bed-bug-woe-ask-your-bed-bug-questions-etc/#comment-1939</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;(sorry for using the wrong tags!)&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>(sorry for using the wrong tags!)</b></p>
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