New readers: if you have a current infestation and want your questions answered, or want feedback of some kind, this is the place to post your message. Click comments to do so.
I’ll start things off with Redhead, who asked in the “What are bed bugs?” FAQ“:
RedheadFeb 1st 2007 at 10:31 pm
I have a bedbug infestation. This situation is completly new to me. Is it possible with this bedbug infestation to salvage both my mattress, box springs and fabric hide-a-bed? I have been told that covering both pieces of the bed in plastic would suffocate the bugs.
Redhead, sorry for your troubles with bed bugs,but you came to the right place. First, you need to go back and read the relevant FAQs, starting with “Think You Have Bed Bugs? Some Do’s and Don’ts.” The FAQs on getting a Pest Control Operator, tenants, and doing your own pest control are probably also key. The three FAQs on protecting your bed will answer the question posed above. Then come back and let us know what else we can help with.
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Buggedinbrooklyn’s response, moved from the place Redhead left the question:
buggedinbrooklyn // Feb 1st 2007 at 10:50 pm
redhead,
for starters, please read all the FAQ on the top of this page–and the “Where do I start?” link also.
yes it’s best to use mattress covers to lock them in/keep them out. I find that plastic covers are great for the box spring as it doesn’t alow the chemicals to enter the cover. any bugs try to walk up the boxspring will pass the chemicals easy.
I’m sure others will chime in too, but do some reading, get a good PCO, and start dealing with a plan as to what your doing with all the clothes and stuff in your house. bugilina will also help remind you to patch up all the cracks and holes you have in your walls and moldings.
good luck, and keep asking questions.
buggedinbrooklyn
From SBM:
SBM // Feb 2nd 2007 at 1:24 am
Hi.
Myself and two friends recently rented an apt in Queens. We just got the keys and started moving small stuff in. We haven’t moved any furniture or matresses or anything in yet. The most we had was our clothes in suitcases and some boxes and my roomate was sleeping on the floor in a sleeping bag and blankets while she waited for her bed to come.
Well, the first night she slept there (Wednesday night) she was attacked. We weren’t sure at first it was bed bugs though it was our first worry. But we called the super right away just to be cautious (esp since we hadn’t moved any furniture/matress in yet) and it turns out the upstairs neighbors have been fighting an ifestation for the last month. (ACTUALLY at first he tried to blame it on us- that we brought it in- though none of us had any bedbug problems at our last homes- until we ran into our upstairs neighbors who told us they had an infestation. Little pissed about THAT)
Well, none the less we already got him to get an exterminator in and everything we’ve moved in already is going straight into the dryer and bagged up.
My question is this though: when do you all think it’s safe to move our beds and furniture in? All three of us are in no financial place really to get new things so we have to be REALLY careful with this. And one of my roomates has nowhere really to stay except couch surfing off the kindness of others which can’t last that long. Not to mention that the three of us basically put all the money in our savings accounts into the security deposit and first month’s on this place- we’d REALLY like to be able to fully move in and when I say we aren’t in great finances I mean it. We can’t afford NOT to live in this place.
When do you think it be safe to bring our stuff in and live there? I mean, I’m super greatful we caught this before we brought the furniture/beds in but all this reading has been making me really freaked that it takes months to deal with it- and I’m not going to pay months of rent on an apt I’ve never gotton to live in.
Buggedinbrooklyn gave us a status update in the comments of the last “Share your tales” thread. Bugged–you said you had not slept in the couch in 2 weeks, but it also sounds like you haven’t been in that apartment to sleep.
It’s really important if you are using conventional pesticides as well as DE and other dusts, that you are sleeping in the apartment, and preferably in any bed or sofa or anywhere else you used to sleep. You can treat the room, but if nobody is sleeping there, the bugs will wait indefinitely (and certainly weeks and months) for you to come back.
If you’re in the bedroom, it might help lure out the ones in the sofa, so that might be the best way to go for awhile, because I know you don’t want to get in that sofa anytime soon.
If some of those bugs are lured out, they’ll encounter the pesticides and die.
There also may be additional pesticides you can use on that sofa. I know its leather, but if you really want to save it, you might need a PCO’s help, or at least to be very aggressive with the pesticides as well as sleeping in the apt. to draw them out.
I am not a PCO, obviously, and know less than others. Maybe Jess has some ideas.
Oh, Buggedinbrooklyn, this advice I am giving you is lousy–who wants to sleep in such a setting? Does your sister REALLY want that sofa?
(I bet if you could invite her over and get her to come over and sit in it for an hour, she’d be cured of that.)
SBM–that is terrible, that when confronted, your super blamed you, knowing full well an adjacent unit was infested when your apartment was vacant.
If I were you, I would consider the fact that you probably have grounds for the return of your entire deposit and any rent paid, except for the time you’ve actually lived there.
Since you’re in NYC, call Met Council on Housing (http://www.metcouncil.net/), nobody knows the law like they do. They’re not lawyers, but they can tell you what your rights are. I know you probably can’t afford a lawyer or to lose that money, but you may well be entitled to get it all back if you want to cause a fuss.
People have blogged elsewhere about getting out of a lease, and in this case, where you just moved in, it seems like it might be worth trying.
Especially–again since you’re in NYC–if they think you might report them to 311 with their little housing violation. Maya Rudolph is suing under similar circumstances, and though her loft cost 13,500, you have as much right to rent an uninfested place as she does.
The actual answer to your question is that it can be very hard to get rid of bed bugs in a multi-unit dwelling. How many other units in the building? More may be infested. Each one makes it harder to get rid of. If your neighbor has been fighting for a month, it may be 2-3 more, IF the landlord hired a PCO who knows what they’re doing and is treating every two weeks.
If the landlord hired a second-rate PCO, or hired a good one but the other tenants with infestations are not following the treatment plan EXACTLY, or–in fact–if the bugs are now travelling around the building via wall voids and pipes, you might have bed bugs for months. Or years.
That is extreme, yes. But it is a bad sign that you’re in a building with bed bugs in multiple apartments.
Whatever you do, don’t bring your stuff in. I’d fight this using whatever advice services you can, and whatever leverage you can muster. The landlord may be glad to see you go –with your money– rather than report them to 311 and take possible legal action.
Treehvn asked:
treehavn // Feb 1st 2007 at 6:03 am
I have a query which doesn’t appear to be answered elsewhere on the site (it’s hard to tell, there’s a lot of information on here). Can anyone give me advice about how their bedbug infestations reacting to the PCO treatment? I see it says it takes 12-14 days to begin working on here (our bloke is coming back to respray after 3 weeks, standard procedure for that company) and it’s been a week since the first spray. I’ve found a few full-grown bugs in the bedroom acting pretty groggy (easy to find and kill), but now we seem to have a second batch of younger (I presume) bugs in the toilet area. Any advice/personal experiences you can share on this one? Cheers.
Tree, after each treatment, you should see less activity. Try to get them to re-spray after 12-14 days which many PCOs do as standard. (The eggs take 10-14 days to hatch, so waiting an extra week gives them time to bite and grow/)
Sometimes people think it isn’t working if they’re still being bitten after even several treatments, but don’t stop unless you have reason to think your PCO does not know what s/he’s doing. In which case, switch, and keep treating every 12-14 days until you’re bug and bite free. Completely.
Are they treating the whole apt.? The presence in the toilet suggests they may be coming in on the pipes or through the wall voids. Type “pipes” in the search box. Get the PCO to treat the point of entry in the toilet area.
This is in response to Buggedinbrooklyn coming back to try out the couch, and Nobugs’s response that you have to be there to lure them out.
I am still very curious about how quickly bedbugs can and will move around an apartment to find you. For example, they obviously knew we slept in the bed, and were probably habitating somewhere near the bed. But then, after we isolated, I stopped getting bit in the bed. Two nights later, I sat on the couch for an hour before one bit me there (I know it was there, I saw the bug).
Just to play out the example, did this bug sense me on the couch from 20 feet away, come walking over from its previous home in the bedroom, and bite me on the couch? And did this take a full hour? Or was this bug more likely already in the couch?
And if it did come from the bedroom, did it take an hour because that’s how long it took him to smell me? Or did he just walk slowly because he had to find hidden walkways in the floors or walls? (I have heard that they typically won’t just walk across an open floor).
I am asking because, like many of us, I have to spend SOME time in my apartment each day. While I am trying to spend as little time there as possible, I have to sleep there, and I have to get up and eat breakfast, and I have to come home at night and shower and get the mail and eat dinner. I have been doing all these things as quickly as possible, and trying to never sit down or stop moving. But it’s maddening, to live like this.
I know there are no rules, but like, let’s say they are now in the couch. If I sit on a stool 10 feet away, will they come over to the stool? And how long might that take?
If anyone has info on how they can move about an apartment, or how quickly, I would really appreciate it. Thank you so much for your thoughts.
hi NBOM,
your right, I have been in the house, but I have not stayed to sleep in the house at all.
so, I was well aware that I would be a welcome snack if I would sleep on the couch. yet I need to be bait to see just how well I’m doing in my fight against the bugs.
I just have not ever cought them cralling on me while I’m trying to sleep before…it was very tramatic to say the least.
the problem is two fold when it comes to the couch.
first it’s leather, like you pointed out. the next is that it is hard to force the bugs to take a path that is sprayed in order to reach thier meal…me.
so it’s always going to be easy for them to feed on me if I sleep on the couch. but I’m sure that I’m killing a lot by all my spraying…yet I agree, that I may need to start going crazy, and “over spray” every 5-7 days, or something like that.
also, I realy fear that if a PCO tryed to spray the couch for me, my clean up will be far worse to the point that the couch might be ruined.
Kleen Free seems to be the only safe product to apply on the leather it’s self, yet I could be missing something.
I’m spraying the couch with D-Force, but I’m trying to avoid spraying the outside of the couch…just spraying the insides heavy.
I don’t think the bugs in the couch are willing to travel any time soon.
I have wall to wall carpeting, and I just don’t see them anyplace in the carpets…not even near the couch.
I do vacumme, just not as much as I maybe should.
I also stay at my computer desk for hours at a time, and I’m sure they will try to reach a good meal if they want to, yet the path from the couch to my dest has lots of dust and spray inbetween the parts of the couch, tables, desk, and walls…let them come and try to reach me while I’m at my desk. I dare them!
I have no idea how good, sprays like suspend last on carpet, but I litely dusted the carpet toward the other way from the couch too (under the other wooden table)….
if they want to tavel they have work to do to reach me. yet there are holes in this strategy. I can’t dust or spray in places that I walk, so they have free rain to roam in the open if they want.
again, I just don’t see any adults in the carpet trying to travel.
what my next plan is that I’ll respray my couch tonight, and stay again in the house to sleep. yet this time in a far safer place like my bed.
I will spend time sitting on the couch to draw them out, and make them active, yet I will not sleep there for a while. I don’t think anyone could blame me for not sleeping in the couch.
I agree that I need to stay here for a few days to keep them active.
the last thing I want is to force them to starve and then go nuts on me again.
sadly, after spending over $8000 on my dad’s arangements, I’m broke.
no more money for Kleen Free or cans of D-Force.
I might be able to borrow more money, but it will be still hard.
I used to split many bills with my dad, such as my over the top, insurance bill for “our” brand new car.
over 10 years of not driving shot my insurance up to $6000 a year.
if you think it’s hard buying $100 worth of bug spray, try spending over $500 on insurance per month.
anyway, my plans are changing and I’ll get past this next stage.
I’m a warrior. them bedbugs better watch out if they know what’s good for them.
buggedinbrooklyn
First i would like to apologise to nbom. i thought i had my last spray last weekend but i think i have a bite on my arm this morning. i stayed on the couch for a few nights and nothing and lst night in my bed. it turns out they came from out from the switchplate behind my bed from construction upstairs. pco drioned it and i dont know if i really got bit in my bedroom or psychologically im fucked.
at any rate i would like a the link for kleen free and DE please. i found a few kleen free sites with different looking bottles so i dont know which one to choose. i would be grateful for that.
i too am wondering how long a bite takes to come out. i also have read up to 7-9 days. is there an absolute outside number? i think ill call or e-mail that lady in virginia that was recommended.
someone wrote “how do you take a cab, subway, etc.” I have decided to not be stupid but do all the things i would be pre-bb days. i cant get so wrapped up that it hampers my fun in life. like rudy said – go about your life – dont let them win. but OMG – maybe that is the wrong decision.
does anyone know what happened at the city hall meeting in septamber 2006?
and sorry again nbom.
Hey Nightshirt, I bought my Kleen Free on Amazon. Here is the link:
http://www.amazon.com/Naturally-Eliminator-Cleaner-Natural-Non-Toxic/dp/B000IBIFDU/sr=8-1/qid=1170440253/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-6690051-9764920?ie=UTF8&s=hpc
You know what’s funny, I ordered it about two weeks ago, and now its title includes the words “Bedbug Eliminator.” It didn’t say that, even two weeks ago! Somebody must be listening.
I have the same question as you, about how long before bites appear. I have reason to suspect that mine may be up to 4 days later. I emailed Dini Miller, the woman at Virginia Tech, but have not yet gotten a response. I will certainly let you know if I do! Maybe you should try calling her – I wouldn’t want to bother her, but if she has this information, there’s no reason not to share it.
If you do call, let us know what she says!
One more thing, about Kleen Free – my PCO looked at the bottle, and he was a little skeptical. He said that if it didn’t have an actual “active ingredient” in it, that was chemical-based, that it wouldn’t necessarily kill bedbugs.
But he said its label did carry many of the same warnings that regular insecticides do. He just wasn’t sure of its effectiveness. And he’d never heard of it.
Has anyone ever actually seen Kleen Free kill a bedbug?
(Just trying to challenge groupthink!)
Hi All,
Nightshirt– why the apologies? In any case, no need. But I am confused! I hope I wasn’t giving you a hard time!
If you want to know how to avoid spreading bed bugs, we have a FAQ on that. Let us know if you have further questions. I think some precautions are a good idea. And if you have a car, think about precautions preventing spreading them there. One Bedbugger just had a car treated by a special PCO 6-7 times to get rid of bed bugs in the car. If they’re in your car, they will come back in your home. Most PCOs don’t do cars, but they will know someone who does.
I would not bother Dini Miller about the number of days until bites appear. It is public knowledge, spread by entomologists via the press, that the bites can take up to 9 days to appear. Most of us notice them sooner, though not immediately. I _think_ mine appear within a day, and they usually start itching after a shower (I think the heat brings them out). I don’t remember anyone saying that they were bitten in a hotel and the bites appeared 9 days later, but the literature suggests this is the maximum time frame.
I do recall people being bitten in hotels for several days but not noticing the first night or two. Many others DO notice the next day.
But really, unless you see yourself bitten, and have only one bite, it is impossible to be sure.
As S. says, you can buy Kleenfree on Amazon, and the different bottles are both different sizes as well as concentrated vs. ready to use. The concentrated is mixed with water and you’ll need a spray bottle from a hardware store.
I have not bought DE but Geoff at dirtworks sells DE and is a reader of the blog and he might answer questions you have. You could email him at dirtworks dot vermont at gmail dot com. (I altered the email so spammers don’t get it.)
Nightshirt, forgive me for forgetting your situation, but is a PCO working on this for you? If so, you might want to check what they’re doing before getting DE. If not, why not?
Bugged–your story reminds me of why some people do throw out couches even though PCOs say it isn’t necessary (and even though we know this can lead to problems when our neighbors take the stuff: hello, permanent infestation in the building!)
My heart goes out to you. You are a warrior.
I am kind of a sissy (I mean that in the nicest possible way). My instinct is that these mo-fos must die. But my other, conflicting instinct is to walk out and become a wandering nomad.
Seriously, if I am going to have no posessions and be bitten by insects while I sleep, why not do it somewhere more scenic?
S. about the Kleen Free: the claim is that it does something to the bugs exoskeleton, which eventually kills them. I can’t help with evidence.
I am not a strong advocate of these things, though lots of people feel better using them, and they’re certainly safer as far as using on a bed or clothing or whatever.
Here’s the thing, if Kleen Free and other enzyme cleaners can kill bed bugs (and I am not disputing that), they can ONLY do it in one way: if the insect is sprayed directly.
90% alcohol will also kill bed bugs if sprayed directly on them.
Makers of enzymatic cleaners say their stuff is more effective than alcohol–fine.
But look, my problem with bed bugs is not killing ones I can see. I can’t see my bed bugs, because they are holed up somewhere, chilling out, until I am in REM sleep. Or working at the computer so seriously I am ignoring them.
I think for a situation like Bugged’s sofa, KleenFree is not going to cut it. (As Bugged knows.) If you have bugs on your mattress and spray them directly, you will probably kill them. But the ones hiding in the mattress, between cracks in the wood, in the floor boards, hidden inside ANYTHING, are going to be safe.
Sometimes people come on the blog and think they will eliminate bed bugs with Kleen Free and a bit of DE and that’s it. I seriously doubt it. I hate “nasty pesticides” as much as anyone, but it’s impossible to eliminate bed bugs without drastic action (Thermapure and Vikane gas seem like the only options besides the traditional).
S.,
I know I’ll get a lot of disagreements here on this subject matter, but I don’t think that bedbugs travel that much if posable….
yes, they can travel on pipes and wires behind walls if needed to find a new home with food in it.
but this seems like a last resort to me for the bugs.
after all, why travel if you have food at the ready?
why move to your couch, if they are by your bed and have plenty of food each night?
your bed is isolated? so..you really think they will stop trying to reach you in or around your bed?
sorry, but I feel it will take weeks or months to force a bedbug to seek out a better place to eat if you isolate your bed…IMHO. till then, they will keep trying. airborn, or other means, they will try.
me, I never realy isolated my bed. I just used mattress covers, and spray the boxspring and the bed frame. let them come after me…they will have to pass all the spraying and thus die sometime.
and if they keep comming after me, then they wont go to the next room or apartment….just my thoughts.
I also have a dining room table just 10 feet away from my couch.
there is no signs that they are even trying to travel to this table…and I spent plenty of time at it after my dad died. all the paper work, phone calls, lawer visits, and eating, still not one bug trying to travel to get a chance to bite me or others…..
this should speak volumes about how they are in your couch. yes, they are the best hitch hikers, and that’s how they are in your couch. you passed them to your couch without knowing it, and it’s not your fault. them damb bugs do it all the time this way.
it’s why in the beginning, I never traveled to even my family’s house on X-Mas or new years.
even now, I don’t like visitors in my house, and they are not alowed on my couch if they stay awile.
about Kleen Free, just look at many of my storys on the subject…yes, I have seen first hand how powerfull it kills bedbugs. far better then bedlam, that’s for sure. just look at many of my past posts and replys.
Kleen Free is the best contact killer IMHO…it kills instantly, on the spot, dead, dead, no more, dead.
buggedinbrooklyn
S.,
you said….”Wow, bugged, thanks for your response. It’s so funny, how when someone has been living with bedbugs, they start to understand more about their nature, their “logic,” what they would be more likely to do or not do. I’m sorry that you’ve gotten to know them as well as you have.
But that’s really interesting, that they never came for you at the table, ten feet away from the couch. ”
look S., they are smart, but I’m the soldier in this war. they will try to find a meal, but I’m the one who can change stratergies on them.
to them, thier home in the couch is a great place to live and feed.
yes, they are hungry. yes, they need to eat. but they think I’ll be there to feed them every day. why should they not think that. after all, that’s how it was when my dad was alive, so why not now?
yet I do feel that they will walk a few feet if they get hungry and your not around to feed them. say from your bedroom chair to your couch.
but in my case, they have no reason to move. as long as I use the couch they will stay in it.
in your case, if you stoped using the chair, I see no reason for them not to try to reach you to feed at the couch.
but it is more likely that they just hitched a ride to the couch, long before that bite. long before.
just my thoughts,
buggedinbrooklyn
Nobugs, you are not a sissy. You are doing more for this issue than practically anyone. A sissy would rid herself of bedbugs, then never speak of it again.
A question about throwing stuff out: My boyfriend and I are now thinking we want to throw out our dressers. They are cheap, they are old, they are empty, they will probably stay empty for months, and they are taking up space in the bedroom.
How can we dispose of them safely? I’ve heard space bags are good, but they don’t appear to make one large enough for a dresser. Should we try like, wrapping them in tarps or something? Spray painting them?
Thanks S–I just mean it in terms of staying in a home with bed bugs and treating them with chemicals indefinitely.
It takes another kind of courage to start a blog, and yet another to wander the earth and make your home among strangers: I’m extremely brave in those departments.
Got an axe? I would hack that thing to pieces. Saving that, I’d break the drawers at least, so it is not useable even after a paint job, and paint BED BUGS: BEWARE on every piece in English and Spanish (someone here can probably help with getting the grammar right on that). Trash pickers from your building, or trash pickers who roam the streets and collect stuff to re-sell, are remarkably inventive. They’ll paint over the warning.
I also think hacking and painting warnings are both good because it’s actually NICE that your neighbors see the words “bed bugs”. They need to know they’re in your neighborhood. They need to think about whether they pick up the other items on the block that don’t have the warning.
I’d slash a mattress or sofa if that were the item.
A bag, however, will do nothing.
Wow, bugged, thanks for your response. It’s so funny, how when someone has been living with bedbugs, they start to understand more about their nature, their “logic,” what they would be more likely to do or not do. I’m sorry that you’ve gotten to know them as well as you have.
But that’s really interesting, that they never came for you at the table, ten feet away from the couch.
My bed is isolated, with the triple obstacle course of carpet tape, mineral oil and vaseline. It’s on risers, away from walls and furniture, and with two encasings each on mattress and box spring. When I was bit on the couch, two days after doing the isolation, it was the first time (I think) that I was bit outside of bed.
So I assumed that they saw or tried the bed, couldn’t get past the barriers, and then decided to seek me out in the rest of the house. Maybe it’s not so cut and dry.
We did have a chair in the bedroom, which we moved out into the living room when the PCO came. He inspected and sprayed that chair, but it’s got big cushions so maybe they were inside it or something. Anyway, we left it out there. It wasn’t touching the couch, but it was about six feet away from it. Maybe that night, they just walked from the chair to the couch.
Or, to your point, I somehow brought them there otherwise, on my clothes or whatnot.
I agree with the strategy of keeping them in the bedroom, and making them try to come after me there. I didn’t want them to spread to other rooms. But it seems that they aren’t getting me in my bed anymore. I’ve had some bites since isolation, but most showed up in the evening, and we’ve had no blood smears since them either. Plus the feeling of control, of one place in your house, and the ability to rest and even sleep, is really helping.
So if what you’re saying is true, then I should probably assume they are in the couch. And the chair. And maybe also somewhere in the bedroom. Let’s say I were to sit at the kitchen counter, four feet from the couch, on a stool? Might I lure them out? I don’t want to stay too far away from the couch, but I don’t want to sit on it either!
Finally, about the Kleen Free, I am only using it to spray my shoes and coat pockets – places I can’t see very easily, and things that come in and out of the house frequently. I also spray my new “purse” (a paper gift bag that is thin and basic, yet conceals the ziploc inside holding my wallet and keys and phone). But I am not expecting KF to do any more than that – contact kill, just in case there is something there.
nbom – i got them in sept when i had my bathroom gutted. came in from the walls. i have written some pretty funny stuff on this site so check it out. first pco only used tempo – no igr or drione and i knew that it wouldnt work but i was in shock. then got a great one whose number i posted ont his site and we will see. did the bags, washing etc. isolated bed (but mine is platform and i did not vasoline the base). etc. and i dont have the energy to repeat but i had my last spray last saturday. if there is a god – show yourself now! i know that a kleen free does not substitute for an exterminator but i would feel better having something in hand when the pco isnt there. i never see them, except once, when they first reared but i would still feel better. i did buy some stuff for bb’s at the home depot. i do the baseboards once a week with that for my mind.
re: outside diligence – i was saying that i will do all the things i used to do but take the cautions before entering the house.
oh and registry is not loading.
(Editor’s note 2/3: the registry is loading for other people, and reports have been added for the last two days, so I think its fine. Try another browser if you’re still having trouble.)
Hey Guys! I took a brief respite from bedbugging, and I missed so much!! I have responses for several individuals, so I’m going to write a couple different comments. Bear with me, okay?
This one is for Brooklyn: Would it be okay for me to email you? If so, Nobugs (who is the only one with access to your email address) can pass it on to me and I’ll write you.
I’m so pissed that you got so many bites and saw the bugs crawling on you. It just really kills me to hear that. All I can say is stay vigilant, stay strong and remember you will win eventually.
I continue to enjoy your anecdotes in the middle of all this crap going on in your life, I really do. Again, I found myself picturing the bug you sprayed three times (I actually pictured you poking at it to see if it was still twitching!) and I couldn’t help but giggle.
You’re making someone laugh, if nothing else.
Hugs.
Jess
jess,
I don’t look at my email everyday so if I don’t reply right away don’t get mad.
I do welcome anyone to email me at micamica1217 at yahoo dot com
btw, yes, I did poke at it, and like his brother he “fliped me the finger” before I used Kleen Free on him….no longer will I use Bedlam after this last can is finished.
I just don’t think it works as good as Kleen Free….IMHO.
I also was thinking of leaving him by the couch, proped up on a toothpick as a warning to the rest of the bugs…yet I relised that they most likely would never take the hint. lol
anyway, I did spray my couch and bed with my last can of D-Force. oh, and my desk too. I even sat in the couch for 5 mins before I got up to frightened to sit any longer. ok, ok, I’m a wimp. but I’m going to sleep in my bed instead of sleeping at my lady’s house….and it’s much nicer to sleep with my lady then with bedbugs. trust me on this.
buggedinbrooklyn
I agree with you BuggedinBrooklyn, I didn’t “isolate” my bed either, except the covers. For the same reason as you. Also I didn’t want my dog to drink the mineral oil…. however, I did try it, recently. I haven’t a clue if it’s working. I haven’t seen a bug lately either, nor have I gotten any bites in a week (last ones were nasty on back of neck). Just spray, wait, pray, wait, spray, wash, (spray-n-wash? ), wait, vacuum. That’s all I do.
Bugged–you are hilarious…
Buggy–my bed isn’t isolated either.
More to others tomorrow- got sidetracked and sleepy.
B-Licious, you’re on my list!
Smiles from the coldest place in the United States right now, aside from Alaska.
Jess
Nightshirt,
Thanks for the apology–I remembered now. Glad you’re back and no worries.
I can’t tell if the reason I’m not getting bitten is because my treatments are working, or that it is just a “lull” and my bubble will burst in a day or two. This roller coaster is too much for me. It’s hard to hold on. I go out everyday like an actress, pretending everything is perfect, keeping my head up high, so no one notices that i am hiding the tattoo of the tiny terrorist ! How do others hold up outside of the home? Just curious. Also, how do I reintroduce my stuff? Last time I did it, I was attacked all over my body.
Hey B-Licious.
I know it’s really tough to be fighting a war at home and trying to function normally elsewhere. You can’t really explain to people what you’re going through. You can try, and some will be sympathetic, but it seems no one really grasps the magnitude of what you’re dealing with. How could they? I remember thinking to myself, as I was trying to talk about it with friends, “You don’t get it, I know you don’t get it, and bless your heart for that. I don’t ever WANT you to understand!”.
Hey, it’s great news that you’re not getting bit! Who cares if it is a “lull”? It means you’re winning! It means damage is being done, it means the bugs are dying, it means you are conquering them. This is good.
I told another bedbugger this recently, and I want you to listen, okay? Remember that every bite you get means that a bug had to crawl through chemical to get to you. Every bite is certain death. The bugs are either crossing the chemical to get to you or crossing the chemical to go back into hiding. So every bite, now, puts you a little closer to victory. Think of those red welts as notches on your belt, B-Licious.
I remember, during the time after treatment, driving myself nuts trying to determine if the bugs were going to come for me, and where they were coming from, and how I could prevent it. In the end, I started repeating this mantra over and over in my head: “Jess, the little f*($&@s have been biting you for months. MONTHS. You’re still alive. You are not sick and you are not in pain. You’re pissed, but you are okay. Now relax and let the chemicals do their job.” After I repeated it about five thousand times, it started to work. Okay, I was getting a few bites, but so what? I was alive, and they were dying. Period.
About reintroduction- talk to your PCO and form a plan. That’s my best advice.
I’m thinking of you. You can do this. You’re over the worst of it now, and it’s going to slowly get better and better every day.
Jess
S.-
I wanted to mention that there’s virtually no doubt in my mind that the bedbugs travelled to your living room on the fluffy chair that was moved out of the (infested) bedroom and into the living room. It’s a big no-no to take furniture from an infested room and put it in another area of the house- it usually spreads the infestation. I know you weren’t aware of this, but I don’t think you need to speculate any longer about how the bugs got into your living room so quickly. I don’t think it has much to do with you isolating your bed. I think they were in that chair, hid from the spraying your PCO did, and travelled into the living room when you moved the chair. Then, they set up camp on the couch. That’s totally normal.
Jess
One other thought, based on a comment from Brooklyn. Bedbugs are NOT smart, people. They’re really not. They don’t think. They are incapable of thinking. They’re BUGS!
What they are amazing at is SURVIVING. Their survival instincts are incredible. So, you can outwit a bedbug, no problem, because you have a brain, and you can think. But it really helps to think like a bedbug acts. Strange, I know, but true. If you consider the behavior of a bedbug- which has three goals in life: to feed, to reproduce, and to avoid detection- you will be better equipped to deal with an infestation.
I credit Bugalina for this one. She told me once “Jess, you’ve got to think like a bedbug!”. She was right (except they don’t think- but I do!).
Jess
hi all,
well, no bites from the my bed last night, and I’m going to sleep again in my bedroom.
I’ll bet that I get no bites again. if I do, then I agree with jess, they will just have to cross the chemicals to reach me…and will die shortly.
btw, them couch bugs are hungry as hell. I noticed a young adult red bedbug out in the open on the back of my side of the couch. not even near a crease or near a hiding spot, but just out in the open ready to pounce on me. if he was the normal, black or dark brown ones, I would never even seen him. 1 shot of Kleen Free and I had another dead bug. I hope his brothers and sisters can smell his death….they’re next.
I think that I’m lucky…
my bedroom seems to be 98%-99% bug free.
sadly my couch might be another story, but at least I should have a good rest tonight.
I realy think that the lack of isolation of my beds helped kill them fast in the bedroom….if they want blood, they have to cross the chemicals.
death is in the air…and it smells good!!!
sadly, my PTSD (you would have PTSD too if you got 40 bites in one night) is kicking in high gear….
if you ladys remember, I always seem to itch as if I’m getting bitten. it really feels like they are always walking on me. mostly my legs, and feet…even with shoes on.
watching the remake of King Kong with Jack Black didn’t help…the bug part creaped me out big time.
hugs go out to all the warriors who are fighting this war, and to all who stay behind to help others in thier time of need.
buggedinbrooklyn
Nightshirt, I forgot to say, yes, I read EVERYTHING on this site, every last comment, including the ones I have to delete that are spam (you never see those). But sometimes I forget all the details of everyone’s saga, especially if it’s been a little while. There are just too many stories to keep track of, so please forgive me and remind me if need be.
Bugged, that red bug was red from his last supper.
(King Kong did it for me too!)
nobugsonme- Thank you so much for your advice.
We are not moving into the apartment. We were in fact out and out lied to, I’ve learned that the lease actually had a page about bedbugs and stated the building was clean of them.
In actuality they have had this problem now we’ve learned for a year, the neighbors we’ve met suffering from it for a month.
They’ve breeched the lease and whilst the money has yet to be given back to us we have every confidence that the money will be returned. They lied, out and out, and breached the lease. And if they DO give us any issue they will uniquivically be reported on and suffer the consequences- we have ZERO sympathy for that landlord after being lied to like that. To be honest, we’re tempted to report them anyway, but we’ll see, there may be good reasons none of the other tennants have done so and we are only going to do this as a last resort.
I just can’t beleive the audacity that the landlord thought he could get away with lying to potential tennants on this matter and thinking he’d get away with it because we’re not rich enough to hire lawyers.
The worst of it all is there is nothing a person can do as a potential renter to stop such a thing from ocurring.
The things we brought over are in the midst of being washed and put straight into plastic containers to be moved out as quickly as possible and everything else is being cleaned thoroughly. I might have to throw away a suitcase I used to move but it’s a small price to pay.
I do have one more question though:
Shoes and books:
I can’t put shoes into the dryer obviously. Is there anyway to save them? How do you clean them free?
And books? Someone told me they can be transported in books and I can NOT get rid of my books. There’s no replacing them, how do I make sure they are clean before I remove them?
Thank you all again, this website has been an invaluable place to get information.
SBM,
I am SO glad you’re not moving in, and that you’re removing yourselves and the stuff you did take in.
There is no surefire way to clean books, shoes, and ANYTHING else that cannot be washed on hot and dried on hot.
Here are your options:
Find a PCO who will treat a truck or van full of your stuff with Vikane Gas. I heard it costs a few grand to do this to a truck of stuff, though it is possible a van will be less. (Update: Deb has alerted me that vans are probably not an option, so this really would only work with a truck and the cost would probably be a few grand.)
Find a cold storage and keep the items at freezing temperatures–it would have to be freezing, not just refrigerated–I would recommend doing this for a week or so. And I mean solidly freezing 1+ weeks, to be safe. If it is not a lot of stuff cold storage may not be expensive, but remember, no one is exactly sure what temperature will kill or how quickly. I think a few weeks freezing is a safe bet. I don’t have any leads, but cold storage is something people can rent, from what I understand. Please let us know if you find a company who will rent small amounts of space to you. I’d start with the yellow pages or googling.
You can seal the stuff in bags and store for 18 months. We’re told they can live up to 18 months. (Trouble is, parting with your stuff for 18 months is hard–opening the boxes at that point is hard too. Haven’t read of anyone going through that yet, but I am sure pretty soon there will be lots of stories.)
You should absolutely get your rent and deposits and moving expenses back. You should also insist the landlord pays for treating your stuff. I want to emphasize that you cannot be too careful with your things. People claim they’ve gotten rid of “everything but their wallet” and transported them. Shoes are a definite danger. I’d treat anything, personally, and I’d force the landlord to pay. I think you have a small claims court case if they won’t (not sure what $$ that goes up to) or civil case, though I am not a lawyer.
Oh, and I am really interested in this bed bug section of the lease. Is it a pre-printed form (the kind landlords buy) or is it something they drew up themselves, like an attached rider? I am waiting to see the pre-printed bed bug forms appear.
Thanks for the update, and again, I am so glad they are not getting away with this.
SBM… for your books and shoes…I would suggest..a thorough thorough inspection..place the items – one by one -onto a white sheet or better yet a large clear plastic tarp layed out in a cleared area…have a few spray bottles of Kleen Free and or a can of DForce…and a hot hair dryer…bed bugs like small dark enclosed places to hide in….so you can take the Kleen Free and spray the heck out of one shoe at a time ( taking them out of a protective container I presume)..then you can blow dry them on very high heat…and then put them into a ziplock..and keep isolated for as long as possible….as for your books you can do the same with each one…you can buy self cling stretch wrap at Staples and after heat drying each book you can “stretch wrap” each one and place into a protective plastice bin…the stretch wrap works very well in sealing…I would recommend that you try as nbom says, to isolate the items for at least a year…keep looking onto the white sheet…obviously…and spray around you with Kleen Free or better yet a lite dusting of Drion….I think Vikane might not be feasible for you as its very costly and requires a special vehicle such as a steel floored Uhaul Truck so the gas cannot escape…I would contact a lawyer who might take your case on with no money down…Maya Rudolph of SNL also moved into an infested loft and she is sueing for 4 million….certainly you should havae the right to sue for your distress and damages….Bugalina ps when you are done with the inspection bag up the sheet or plastic tarp and the old clothes you are wearing and chuck them all into the trash ASAP…You can also do the inspection and extermination is a bathtub…in a brightly lite bathroom…so sorry for your plight…
Regarding the reintroduction of stuff:
Right now, we have moved all of our “stuff” into a storage locker. This excludes furniture and clothes, but everything else – books, toys, electronics, papers, and all that other random stuff you forgot you owned. It’s all in XL ziplocs and plastic bins, in a small room a few blocks away.
Our whole apartment was sprayed on Tuesday, so now our place is, as the PCO said, a “hostile environment.” We are currently dealing with the stuff – when and how do we bring it back?
So here’s what we realized. The only reason we moved it out in the first place was to give the PCO access. He needed all our furniture empty, and in the centers of the rooms. If our stuff could all fit magically on one shelf, for example, and still give him access, we would have just left it here.
So here’s what we are doing. Some of the stuff, we’ve realized, we can live without for 18 months. It’ll make our lives easier to just keep it in storage. I’ll be okay without my Pez dispenser collection; my boyfriend will be okay without his old Nintendo. So all that stuff, we are putting in ziplocs, putting the ziplocs in plastic bins, and taping down the rims of the bins with clear tape. AIRTIGHT, BABY.
Then, for the stuff that we don’t want to live without, we are bringing it all back today. Just in case there are any bugs in it, we want them to wake up, come out, walk on poison and die. So we are taking it all out of ziplocs and putting it on metal shelving units (we have 2). I have to imagine that if the bugs are in a book, they won’t stay in that book forever. They’ll have to get hungry at some point. Then they’ll come out, and encounter our hostile environment!
Just to make sure that the shelves are a one-way street (so any new bugs from the house don’t go crawling up them and start living in the books), we will put vaseline on the legs, and surround them on the ground with a ring of D-Force.
SBM, perhaps you could do something similar with your books and things? A can of D-Force is like $20 and wire shelving is cheap.
Thanks, Jess! I appreciate it.
I have been getting what looks likd bites on my legs. I looked in my bed, on the rug, under the matress. dismanteled the couch looked on the floor borards and found a few dead bugs, they did not look like the bed bug pictures on the internet. I left town for 4 days and did not get any new red spots. I have also been using two creams on my legs my daughter gave me, Taro & Triamcindone. I have an extra bedroom so I have been sleeping in. I have not taken anything in that bedroom that was in my old room. I have been washing everything and placing clean items in clean bags. I do not wear anything twice. I bathe at night and put on clean clothes. I have done a lot of research on the internet trying to identify what my problem is. I have an drs. appt. tomorrow. I am very anxious about this. Pls help.
Judy…What do the bugs look like that you found? What do the bites look like? Do they itch? Many of us have gone to Drs. who know very little about bed bugs, I hope yours does. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but if they are bed bugs you need to get into action and one of things NOT to do is to move into another room…they will follow…Please give us a description of the bugs and the bites..Bugalina
Judy just another thought…I had found carpet beetles, yet I had bed bugs,When I showed the exterminator the carpet beetles he didn’t take me seriously, unfortunately before I contacted them I found a molted skin and poppy seed sized blood excrement on my bed skirt, which I flushed down the toilet. So.this delayed my ability to get exterminated, So .what I learned…Save all bugs in a glass jar, and just because you find one kind of bug that isn’t a bed bug does not mean that you don’ t have bed bugs. The bites are telltale. You can phone a local exterminator to identify the bugs you found. Bugalina
Judy,
Please make sure you read our Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) linked from the top of this page, especially “What are bed bugs” (which outlines some other possible causes your doctor and you should rule out) and also “Think you have bed bugs” Some do’s and don’t” just to make sure you don’t make any mistakes–as most of us do when we are at the early stages. Also, in the “photos” link at the right of the screen, there are links to photos of bed bugs. The young ones look very different from older ones, and they look different when full vs. hungry. Make sure you look at a lot of bed bug photos before being sure your bugs weren’t bbs.
Your doctor can rule out scabies and skin conditions. Try to get him or her to do a scraping if s/he suspects scabies–mine treated me instead for that, and the meds (a pesticide you wear on your skin for 12 hours) can have side effects.
Also, you may not have bed bugs.
However, in my case, my doctor insisted mine were not BB bites, and I later found lots of others with similar bite marks (we don’t all react the same).
Also, as per Deb’s carpet beetle experience, I have found everything from lathrydiid beetles to spider beetles to fungus gnats to “seeds” and had an entomologist look at them to determine if they could be causing my problem. They weren’t. The presence of other bugs that you show to a PCO might make the PCO think you do not have bed bugs, but the presence of other bugs does not mean the absence of bed bugs–that’s illogical.
Bed bugs can be hard to catch. Try to rule out medical causes–skin conditions, parasites. And look for the little black poops and cast off skins. They may be all the proof you get.
SBM,
I actually think if you can afford it, freezing storage (probably not too pricy for your small amount of stuff) or Vikane (much more expensive) is a much better option than 18 months in storage–18 months of regular storage in NYC can actually be as pricy as another option AND it means you have to replace or do without.
Judy — if you are in NYC, we can hook you up with someone who will ID bugs–Lou Sorkin of the Natural History museum. There’s someone at Harvard who does it if you’re in Boston and probably via mail from anywhere.
Has everyone seen the article in today’s times, op ed page 9 of the City Section? Written by Bonnie Friedman—thank you Bonnie!
Nightshirt, Bugalina knows about the city hall meeting last September. She was there. I have been in touch with my city council person, and still nothing is happening—what, 4 months later! Nobugs, I saw a mattress and boxspring laying on the sidewalk of my upper east side street the other day, with other old furniture. I was about to take a photo of it, when I got sidetracked. When I went back outside to do just that, the trash had been picked up. That photo would have gone to the City Council Bed Bug Task Force (is it really in existance?)
Hey Wantmyskinback-
Welcome.
It might be helpful if you introduced yourself and let others know how you got here and how you know Bugalina, etc., since I’m pretty sure you haven’t commented on the blog before. It might be interesting for our readers to know your story and make the connection. As you know, the blog is different from the Yahoo group, and so most people here won’t recognize you.
Jess
In My Humble Opinion…Someone put a gag in Gale Brewers mouth….She was very gung ho when I attended the meeting…very vocal about getting the law passed ( to ban reconditioned mattresses) and to set up a Bed Bug Task Force ….Two thugs from Bloomberg’s administration showed up to say that it would be impossible to enforce a used mattress law and they were of the belief that it was more important for people to save 50 to 100 dollars on a mattress purchase than having them run the risk of getting bed bugs from a “reconditioned” mattress..something tells me that someone doesn’t want to let on about the massive spread of bed bugs in NYC…..Integrity is wasted on the greedy. I have a news clip from the meeting..
The Bonnie Friedman article is here. The link may not last long: the Times is not very free and easy with its online version these days.
Bonnie Friedman demonstrates that when well-known people, like writers, get bed bugs, they have a chance to share the story more widely. Nice work, Bonnie! I have not seen Maya Rudolph talking about this, nor many other people. (When you have a court case, you can’t really talk about it, I know.) But I hope they’ll start to, because we need that. It does wonders for getting people to take this seriously.
Wantmyskin, I think the BBTF is stalled. I don’t doubt it may have been KO’d as Buga says, but hopefully, soon, someone in city politics will have a personal experience of bed bugs, and will become an activist. I wrote to Gail Brewer’s office myself and got no response.
Just wait until more people who happen to be reporters, politicians, media barons, and hotel owners have the misfortune to get bed bugs in their own homes. I am not wishing that on anyone, but they’re spreading at such a rate, it is inevitable. I do think things will change. You see, this isn’t like other social ills which politicians will allow to go on for decades because they are unaffected. They WILL be affected, and they will have to suffer the same misery as the rest of us. Money will make it slightly more comfortable, but there’s a limit to what money can do–you have to get multiple treatments or be inconvenienced in a big way no matter what. We’re lucky this does touch all kinds of people. If it only hit the poor and homeless, I think it would be even more of a mess, because people in power would not give a toss.
Thank you for the welcome. Hello. Yes, I was/am part of the Yahoo group . And have been keeping a low profile and probably will continue to. I read the blogs constantly, and use the information on the links provided. I am almost bug free, working with Pestaway. Fingers crossed.
Wantmyskinback– I have a question for you (about the PestAway protocol for getting rid of BBs): you had to clean and carefully store your stuff. Do you have to keep it stored (sealed up, airtight) for 18 months? Or what did they tell you to do?
Thanks!
No Bugs, that is an interesting question. I’m trying to figure that out myself. I was instructed to remove my clothing, books, bedding and artwork, and everything from any drawers in my bedroom and children’s bedrooms. I was told to wrap my paintings and artwork (why? and for how long? not sure about that). The instructions are vague about how long I should keep my artwork wrapped, and my books, which I vacuumed carefully. I kind of feel the same as some of the other people though, if there are leftover bugs, why not let them out and let them walk on the poison? I hope this answers your question.
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