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	<title>Comments on: more lousy advice about bed bugs</title>
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	<link>http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/</link>
	<description>bed bug news, information, activism, and support</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-285</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 19:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-285</guid>
		<description>Howard, 

I'm looking into the thermapure pest license. Since you've had some experience, would you be willing to discuss privately?

If so please contact me steve@arizona-enviro.com

Thanks

Steve V</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howard, </p>
<p>I&#8217;m looking into the thermapure pest license. Since you&#8217;ve had some experience, would you be willing to discuss privately?</p>
<p>If so please contact me <a href="mailto:steve@arizona-enviro.com">steve@arizona-enviro.com</a></p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Steve V</p>
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		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-280</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 02:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-280</guid>
		<description>Deb/Bugalina,

I am sorry that you had to deal with that kind of pest control operator. It is companies like that give our industry a bad name.   You may want to contact the state about your problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deb/Bugalina,</p>
<p>I am sorry that you had to deal with that kind of pest control operator. It is companies like that give our industry a bad name.   You may want to contact the state about your problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-281</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-281</guid>
		<description>Nobugsonme,

Two things in my experience, affect the success of a bed bug treatment (regardless of the method) in a multi family situation. 
First, all surrounding units MUST at least be inspected (in some cases it may be wise to do some sort of treatment in an adjoining unit(s) even if no bed bugs are found). I realize that this does not guarantee that even the most experienced and professional inspector may not miss something, but not taking this vital step will pretty much guarantee failure of any treatment rendered if there is problem in another adjoining  unit. 

We will not contract to do any bed bug work in a multi family or hotel situation where we are prohibited from at least inspecting adjoining units. 

The second problem in the multi family situation is (not so much in hotels) people LIVE in these units and they have .... well, stuff. In some cases lots of stuff. Lots of stuff means lots of places for bed bugs to hide. Even heat, as effective as it is, cannot penetrate very deeply into articles with density, like a box of books or a filing cabinet. You can be successful in these situations only if ALL the stuff is inspected, removed from the treatment area and treated when necessary. Treatment of people's "stuff" is a whole other situation. 
When we are talking about things like, stored items in boxes or items in drawers other than clothes, if the infestation is severe enough, I would recommend removing articles and having them fumigated with Vikane while unit(s) are being treated. Fumigation, although not practical in most multi family situations, is probably the most effective treatment for bed bugs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobugsonme,</p>
<p>Two things in my experience, affect the success of a bed bug treatment (regardless of the method) in a multi family situation.<br />
First, all surrounding units MUST at least be inspected (in some cases it may be wise to do some sort of treatment in an adjoining unit(s) even if no bed bugs are found). I realize that this does not guarantee that even the most experienced and professional inspector may not miss something, but not taking this vital step will pretty much guarantee failure of any treatment rendered if there is problem in another adjoining  unit. </p>
<p>We will not contract to do any bed bug work in a multi family or hotel situation where we are prohibited from at least inspecting adjoining units. </p>
<p>The second problem in the multi family situation is (not so much in hotels) people LIVE in these units and they have &#8230;. well, stuff. In some cases lots of stuff. Lots of stuff means lots of places for bed bugs to hide. Even heat, as effective as it is, cannot penetrate very deeply into articles with density, like a box of books or a filing cabinet. You can be successful in these situations only if ALL the stuff is inspected, removed from the treatment area and treated when necessary. Treatment of people&#8217;s &#8220;stuff&#8221; is a whole other situation.<br />
When we are talking about things like, stored items in boxes or items in drawers other than clothes, if the infestation is severe enough, I would recommend removing articles and having them fumigated with Vikane while unit(s) are being treated. Fumigation, although not practical in most multi family situations, is probably the most effective treatment for bed bugs.</p>
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		<title>By: Bugalina</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-282</link>
		<dc:creator>Bugalina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-282</guid>
		<description>My extermination, for a small cape cod home, maybe 2000 sq.ft. cost $3400.00.  Then the same company charged me $1800.00 to spray a fifteen percent pyrethrin dust into a Storage POD that was in my driveway, they sprayed it twice, $900.00 a shot.  The  $3400.00 was for two treatments, each lasting no more than two hours.  They used mostly an aerosol called KONK.  They did not use Drione.  They sprayed with Suspend, they did not use Gentrol.  I have left the house empty and the POD is in a storage facility.  So in total I gave this company $5200.00, I left the house because I continued to get bitten and they refused to come back because they didn't "see" any bed bugs. Before I left I had Orkin come in and spray for a cost of $900.00 . I must go back into the house in January.  I am of, course terrified and I am mistrustful of exterminators.  I only wish that Sean and Howard could do work in NY.  I was contacted by a nice man who is an exterminator and he gave me informatio about Vikaning the POD.  The problem is that I have to transfer all of the contents into a U -Haul truck and then drive it several hours away.  I was told it would cost a minmimum of $1500.00, maybe a little more.  This cost does not trouble me if in fact it will guarantee a complete kill of any bugs in my furniture.  My furniture has been in this POD since last May.  I have been contacted by an exterminator on this board who is angry with me for not being fond of exterminators.  I apologized to him but begged him to understand how hard my husband and I work for our money and how devastated we have been emotionally and finanancially.  I don't understand why this bug is being permitted to spread at such a rapid rate.  People who have bed bugs have their lives ripped out from under them..Deb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My extermination, for a small cape cod home, maybe 2000 sq.ft. cost $3400.00.  Then the same company charged me $1800.00 to spray a fifteen percent pyrethrin dust into a Storage POD that was in my driveway, they sprayed it twice, $900.00 a shot.  The  $3400.00 was for two treatments, each lasting no more than two hours.  They used mostly an aerosol called KONK.  They did not use Drione.  They sprayed with Suspend, they did not use Gentrol.  I have left the house empty and the POD is in a storage facility.  So in total I gave this company $5200.00, I left the house because I continued to get bitten and they refused to come back because they didn&#8217;t &#8220;see&#8221; any bed bugs. Before I left I had Orkin come in and spray for a cost of $900.00 . I must go back into the house in January.  I am of, course terrified and I am mistrustful of exterminators.  I only wish that Sean and Howard could do work in NY.  I was contacted by a nice man who is an exterminator and he gave me informatio about Vikaning the POD.  The problem is that I have to transfer all of the contents into a U -Haul truck and then drive it several hours away.  I was told it would cost a minmimum of $1500.00, maybe a little more.  This cost does not trouble me if in fact it will guarantee a complete kill of any bugs in my furniture.  My furniture has been in this POD since last May.  I have been contacted by an exterminator on this board who is angry with me for not being fond of exterminators.  I apologized to him but begged him to understand how hard my husband and I work for our money and how devastated we have been emotionally and finanancially.  I don&#8217;t understand why this bug is being permitted to spread at such a rapid rate.  People who have bed bugs have their lives ripped out from under them..Deb</p>
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		<title>By: nobugsonme</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-283</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugsonme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 05:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-283</guid>
		<description>Howard,
I agree that licensed (and experienced!) professionals should be inspecting.
I hope you read this response, because I have some questions for you about heat--since you're the first real live PCO who uses heat to kill bed bugs that I've encountered (well, virutally anyhow).
Two questions if you don't mind?
1/ How does heat treatment work in one apartment of a multi-unit building?  (This may vary depending on whether other units are infested.)  I'm wondering if you offer guarantees in this case.
2/ Do you or does anyone you know use heat to treat bed bugs in NYC?  We were told (someone asked Thermapure, I think) that the process is illegal here.  But lots of people are keen to try it.
It's darned expensive, but so is throwing away furniture, moving, or treating over and over using traditional methods.

The multi-unit dwelling problem in many cities is key:  landlords typically are treating one or two units without REALLY knowing if others are infested.  A cursory and even a careful inspection just don't always tell us if they're there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howard,<br />
I agree that licensed (and experienced!) professionals should be inspecting.<br />
I hope you read this response, because I have some questions for you about heat&#8211;since you&#8217;re the first real live PCO who uses heat to kill bed bugs that I&#8217;ve encountered (well, virutally anyhow).<br />
Two questions if you don&#8217;t mind?<br />
1/ How does heat treatment work in one apartment of a multi-unit building?  (This may vary depending on whether other units are infested.)  I&#8217;m wondering if you offer guarantees in this case.<br />
2/ Do you or does anyone you know use heat to treat bed bugs in NYC?  We were told (someone asked Thermapure, I think) that the process is illegal here.  But lots of people are keen to try it.<br />
It&#8217;s darned expensive, but so is throwing away furniture, moving, or treating over and over using traditional methods.</p>
<p>The multi-unit dwelling problem in many cities is key:  landlords typically are treating one or two units without REALLY knowing if others are infested.  A cursory and even a careful inspection just don&#8217;t always tell us if they&#8217;re there.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-284</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 01:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-284</guid>
		<description>You are 100% correct about heat for bed bug control. 

I have a pest control company in Florida. I was trained (I use this statement very very loosely) by Thermapure. We basically had to learn on our own through trial and error. I must state to you that our relationship with Thermapure is no longer. 
We have been doing heat in Florida for wood destroying organisms like Drywood Termites, Powder post beetles and Wood borers for about 5 years(we are talking hundreds of jobs) both for my company as well as a sub-contractor for companies like Massy Services, Truly Nolen and Orkin.

Treating bed bugs using heat was first done in Florida by another pest control operator who got out of the heat business. There is an article in Pest Control Magazine some years back documenting his treatment and what he discovered. My company has probably done 25 treatments using heat to kill bed bugs over the last 18 months. All were 100%successful. All but one only required one treatment. After that one treatment which required we heat a second time, (probably the 5th or 6th treatment we did) we incorporated a limited amount of pesticides (I hate that word, I prefer, product or material) to basically create an island which the bed bugs are trapped on. The area is heated to surface temps in the 150 degree range and held for min of 3 hours. All are dead, including the eggs. It is expensive, the prep is relatively the same as with conventional treatments except for fire sprinklers which are not that big a deal and you don't have to throw out the mattress.  
One thing puzzles me though, I had someone contact me from New York several years ago in reference to treating a home with heat for Wood Borers. I contacted the  state governmental agency that regulates pest control to see if I could use heat and this state regulator basically welcomed me with open arms. (We did not end up doing the work, we discovered the infestation was inactive). 
I believe heat is the best way to treat for bed bugs, but it is not preventative. I know you know that there are no products available that can prevent bed bugs. However, some bed bug problems can be avoided in a hotel. I am sure you are aware that some pest control companies are training hotel housekeeping and maintenance how to inspect for bed bugs. The idea obviously is to find the problem, quarantine the room, and treat. This does make alot of sense and the reality at this point is that it is our only option to at least prevent some of the problem from spreading. 

However, I think (this will start out sounding self serving but hear me out) a licensed pest control professional should be making the inspections. After all, this is what we do for a living, we are trained and educated  professionals in this field. You would not give mechanic (not that mechanics are not intellengent people) a few hours training and tell him he could now do surgery.
The other reason is that...in my experience there is a tremendous amount of turnover in that part of the hotel industry so that could affect the quality and frequency that the inspection should be done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are 100% correct about heat for bed bug control. </p>
<p>I have a pest control company in Florida. I was trained (I use this statement very very loosely) by Thermapure. We basically had to learn on our own through trial and error. I must state to you that our relationship with Thermapure is no longer.<br />
We have been doing heat in Florida for wood destroying organisms like Drywood Termites, Powder post beetles and Wood borers for about 5 years(we are talking hundreds of jobs) both for my company as well as a sub-contractor for companies like Massy Services, Truly Nolen and Orkin.</p>
<p>Treating bed bugs using heat was first done in Florida by another pest control operator who got out of the heat business. There is an article in Pest Control Magazine some years back documenting his treatment and what he discovered. My company has probably done 25 treatments using heat to kill bed bugs over the last 18 months. All were 100%successful. All but one only required one treatment. After that one treatment which required we heat a second time, (probably the 5th or 6th treatment we did) we incorporated a limited amount of pesticides (I hate that word, I prefer, product or material) to basically create an island which the bed bugs are trapped on. The area is heated to surface temps in the 150 degree range and held for min of 3 hours. All are dead, including the eggs. It is expensive, the prep is relatively the same as with conventional treatments except for fire sprinklers which are not that big a deal and you don&#8217;t have to throw out the mattress.<br />
One thing puzzles me though, I had someone contact me from New York several years ago in reference to treating a home with heat for Wood Borers. I contacted the  state governmental agency that regulates pest control to see if I could use heat and this state regulator basically welcomed me with open arms. (We did not end up doing the work, we discovered the infestation was inactive).<br />
I believe heat is the best way to treat for bed bugs, but it is not preventative. I know you know that there are no products available that can prevent bed bugs. However, some bed bug problems can be avoided in a hotel. I am sure you are aware that some pest control companies are training hotel housekeeping and maintenance how to inspect for bed bugs. The idea obviously is to find the problem, quarantine the room, and treat. This does make alot of sense and the reality at this point is that it is our only option to at least prevent some of the problem from spreading. </p>
<p>However, I think (this will start out sounding self serving but hear me out) a licensed pest control professional should be making the inspections. After all, this is what we do for a living, we are trained and educated  professionals in this field. You would not give mechanic (not that mechanics are not intellengent people) a few hours training and tell him he could now do surgery.<br />
The other reason is that&#8230;in my experience there is a tremendous amount of turnover in that part of the hotel industry so that could affect the quality and frequency that the inspection should be done.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-279</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 03:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-279</guid>
		<description>Interesting ...

I would like to see the documented proof that bed bugs are resistant to "pesticides."

In fact, I know that they are not.

Prior to the 1970s bed bug strains were beginning to show resistance to DDT.

Currently there are strains that are showing resistance to Pyrethroids.

However, we have a large number of pesticides that they are showing no resistance to.

As a pest control industry we are showing very good success rates with erradicating bed bugs.

The largest obstacle in the battle against bed bugs is not the chemicals available .... it is the lack of cooperation from clients and incorrect applications by technicians.

Sean
Entomologist / Pest Professional
www.thebedbugresource.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting &#8230;</p>
<p>I would like to see the documented proof that bed bugs are resistant to &#8220;pesticides.&#8221;</p>
<p>In fact, I know that they are not.</p>
<p>Prior to the 1970s bed bug strains were beginning to show resistance to DDT.</p>
<p>Currently there are strains that are showing resistance to Pyrethroids.</p>
<p>However, we have a large number of pesticides that they are showing no resistance to.</p>
<p>As a pest control industry we are showing very good success rates with erradicating bed bugs.</p>
<p>The largest obstacle in the battle against bed bugs is not the chemicals available &#8230;. it is the lack of cooperation from clients and incorrect applications by technicians.</p>
<p>Sean<br />
Entomologist / Pest Professional<br />
<a href="http://www.thebedbugresource.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thebedbugresource.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: mgdecombe</title>
		<link>http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-278</link>
		<dc:creator>mgdecombe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 23:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bedbugger.com/2006/12/02/more-lousy-advice-about-bed-bugs/#comment-278</guid>
		<description>Quite honestly, I think the root of his flawed reasoning has a close relative that is promoted in other bed bug discussions- that bed bugs are resistant to pesticides anyway, and unless we can use DDT, the whole operation is futile, so might as well just isolate oneself...

I am NOT claiming this is valid thinking, just commenting that this is an extreme extension of the argument that it is futile to treat with anything but DDT.

Having said that, I think that few people take IndyMedia very seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite honestly, I think the root of his flawed reasoning has a close relative that is promoted in other bed bug discussions- that bed bugs are resistant to pesticides anyway, and unless we can use DDT, the whole operation is futile, so might as well just isolate oneself&#8230;</p>
<p>I am NOT claiming this is valid thinking, just commenting that this is an extreme extension of the argument that it is futile to treat with anything but DDT.</p>
<p>Having said that, I think that few people take IndyMedia very seriously.</p>
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